Profile Picture

1944 Federal 606 C2 6x6 Wrecker

Posted By Jeff Lakaszcyck 5 Years Ago
You don't have permission to rate!
Author
Message
Park Olson
Posted 5 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
5th Direct

5th Direct (931 reputation)5th Direct (931 reputation)5th Direct (931 reputation)5th Direct (931 reputation)5th Direct (931 reputation)5th Direct (931 reputation)5th Direct (931 reputation)5th Direct (931 reputation)5th Direct (931 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 3 Years Ago
Posts: 866, Visits: 8.1K
Jeff,,you're right about ugly
I have some NEWAY  "hand job" valve seat cutters you are welcome to use . PM or call if interested.
 276-768-6240...........Park

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
PROGRESS WAS ALRIGHT ONCE, BUT IT HAS GONE ON TOO LONG


Jeff Lakaszcyck
Posted 5 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
Rocket Scientist

Rocket Scientist (14.2K reputation)Rocket Scientist (14.2K reputation)Rocket Scientist (14.2K reputation)Rocket Scientist (14.2K reputation)Rocket Scientist (14.2K reputation)Rocket Scientist (14.2K reputation)Rocket Scientist (14.2K reputation)Rocket Scientist (14.2K reputation)Rocket Scientist (14.2K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Last Active: 5 hours ago
Posts: 10.1K, Visits: 146.2K
I got the rear head off a short time ago. Now I'm inside in the a/c cooling off. The rear cylinders look about the same as the front, #4 was full of water this time. Once again, it is just the top of the cylinder that is rusty, the part that had water in it looks ok. Still looks ugly, but it's not as bad as it could be. Once again the cylinders have been filled with Rust Blast in an effort to free up the engine.

Rear head off, water in #4, Piston is about BDC.
http://forums.justoldtrucks.com/uploads/images/93e3fd8e-dd78-46b7-a4ec-8dd8.jpg

#4 cylinder bailed and dried.
http://forums.justoldtrucks.com/uploads/images/871d48c8-95dd-45d8-a9e0-4f56.jpg

#5 Cylinder
http://forums.justoldtrucks.com/uploads/images/cf96c23b-f545-4be2-bf85-5600.jpg

#6 Cylinder
http://forums.justoldtrucks.com/uploads/images/5abfde48-d5d1-4cc6-8ca9-3318.jpg

I also pulled the side covers to look at the valvetrain. This looks ugly too, but it looks like it can be disassembled and cleaned up. I'm not sure about the lifters, the exposed surfaces have surface rust, but I did find one with no spring pressure on it and it turned freely.

Front valvetrain
http://forums.justoldtrucks.com/uploads/images/d1fbb39a-44d7-4007-9e04-fa82.jpg

Rear Valvetrain
http://forums.justoldtrucks.com/uploads/images/744736de-66da-4a2f-9398-1fe2.jpg

Jeff
Attachments
Rear Head Off - Water in #4.jpg (5 views, 201.00 KB)
#4 Drained and Cleaned Out.jpg (4 views, 248.00 KB)
#5 Cylinder.jpg (4 views, 232.00 KB)
#6 Cylinder.jpg (5 views, 184.00 KB)
Front Valvetrain.jpg (8 views, 198.00 KB)
Rear Valvetrain.jpg (8 views, 216.00 KB)
Park Olson
Posted 5 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
5th Direct

5th Direct (931 reputation)5th Direct (931 reputation)5th Direct (931 reputation)5th Direct (931 reputation)5th Direct (931 reputation)5th Direct (931 reputation)5th Direct (931 reputation)5th Direct (931 reputation)5th Direct (931 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 3 Years Ago
Posts: 866, Visits: 8.1K
Can't tell from the pic', are these valve stems "key'd", or do they have a split keeper?
Have you pulled the pan plug to check for water ? Good chance you have water in the basement, after those valve galley pic's. :crying:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
PROGRESS WAS ALRIGHT ONCE, BUT IT HAS GONE ON TOO LONG


Tony Bullard
Posted 5 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
13th direct

13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Last Active: Yesterday
Posts: 3.7K, Visits: 17.8K
Jeff, I have both types of valve spring compressors you are welcome to barrow. It wouldn't hurt to pull the valves and clean everything up and at least lap them in. I'd pull the lifters also. if one is really stuck you may brake the camshaft or timing gear when you try to turn it over. Ask me how I know, If you are concerned about the springs measure the free length of one that looks good. Put it on a bathroom scale in your press and compress it lets say 3/8" and take a scale reading. compress another 3/8" and get another reading. Now you can determine the spring rate which you may need when looking for a new one. Check the rate of the rest and compare.

A lot of that ugly is just on the surface. The whole thing looks pretty good to me.



Tony
Tony Bullard
Posted 5 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
13th direct

13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Last Active: Yesterday
Posts: 3.7K, Visits: 17.8K
"but I did find one with no spring pressure on it and it turned freely."

If the valve stem is stuck it will hold the valve up and it may be free of the lifter. There will still be spring pressure but not enough to pull the stuck valve down.  Lightly tap the valve head to see if it tightens the lifter up. DON'T bend the stem or head.


Tony
Jeff Lakaszcyck
Posted 5 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
Rocket Scientist

Rocket Scientist (14.2K reputation)Rocket Scientist (14.2K reputation)Rocket Scientist (14.2K reputation)Rocket Scientist (14.2K reputation)Rocket Scientist (14.2K reputation)Rocket Scientist (14.2K reputation)Rocket Scientist (14.2K reputation)Rocket Scientist (14.2K reputation)Rocket Scientist (14.2K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Last Active: 5 hours ago
Posts: 10.1K, Visits: 146.2K
Tony, I may take you up on the valve spring compressor, I don't think I have one. You were right, I didn't mention it but that valve is stuck wide open, I can get a finger between it and the lifter ! I am planning the remove all the valves and send them out to be ground, and do the seats as well.

Park, I think the valves have keepers. Thanks for the reminder about checking the basement. I had meant to do this when I got the truck but got sidetracked with the engine issues. This afternoon I pulled all the oil plugs on the engine and drive train looking for water, When I pulled the engine plugs nothing happened, there was about one to two inches of sludge that I had to break through. I drained about a gallon of clear water out of the engine. before oil started flowing. I don't think that is enough to hurt anything. The oil level was high on the dipstick but after draining the water it read about right. With all that sludge I will be pulling the oil pan off and cleaning it out. Another thing to add to the list.

The transmission and transfer case had no water, just very black oil. But the front differential had clear water and no oil. I have been told these worm drives accumulate a lot of condensation and can hold water. I don't know why there was no oil. I drained all the water and filled the diff with 90 weight.

When the truck was in New Jersey the rear cover on the rear worm drive was broken and had a large hole in it that exposed the bearing.  I looked at the bearing when we unloaded the truck, it looked dry and rusty but it was intact. So I expected water in the rear rear. But when I pulled the plug nothing would drain. There was a bunch of metal blocking the drain - not good. I looked at the bearing on the worm gear again and it had disintegrated. It must have happened when we pulled the truck from my driveway up to the shop. I have a feeling there is other damage. But even though the bearing disintegrated, there was oil on it, so that's something !  So tomorrow I'll start working on pulling the rear differential.

This is the broken cover on the rear worm drive in 2009.
http://forums.justoldtrucks.com/uploads/images/43cb8b44-f05d-4ed1-aa3a-1847.jpg

Different view
http://forums.justoldtrucks.com/uploads/images/29979718-eb94-4a49-bcd0-f8cf.jpg

It's not dry any more but the bearing is gone !
http://forums.justoldtrucks.com/uploads/images/b55698b7-e96f-405c-8ea5-979b.jpg


Jeff
Attachments
federal005.jpg (6 views, 114.00 KB)
Worm Gear Bearing.jpg (7 views, 186.00 KB)
redandyellow
Posted 5 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
First Gear

First Gear (13 reputation)First Gear (13 reputation)First Gear (13 reputation)First Gear (13 reputation)First Gear (13 reputation)First Gear (13 reputation)First Gear (13 reputation)First Gear (13 reputation)First Gear (13 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 3 Years Ago
Posts: 11, Visits: 21
Jeff,
This is a very interesting project you have going. I am particularly interested in the unsticking of the engine. Earlier in the thread I had noticed the reference to using Rust Blast to unstick and engine so I had Eddy ship me some. I am trying to get the pony engine on my Caterpillar D8 14A unstuck. I put an inch or so of Rust Blast in the cylinders last Friday. I tried using a wood block and large hammer on them Saturday but nothing moved. I refilled the cylinders and inch deep and will leave them sit over the holiday. My guess is to eventually, the Rust Blast will work its way down the cylinder walls and bingo, it will be free????

To help the process along, has anyone used heat to help the cylinder walls move away from the pistons? I tried burning some diesel using a rag in each cylinder but that did not seem to generate much heat. I then tried a propane torch and still not much heat. I am going to try the O2/acetylene torch (very carefully) next. Good idea or bad anyone???? 

Red and Yellow
Jeff Jensen
Posted 5 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
I'm new welcome me

I'm new welcome me (2 reputation)I'm new welcome me (2 reputation)I'm new welcome me (2 reputation)I'm new welcome me (2 reputation)I'm new welcome me (2 reputation)I'm new welcome me (2 reputation)I'm new welcome me (2 reputation)I'm new welcome me (2 reputation)I'm new welcome me (2 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Last Active: 4 Years Ago
Posts: 2, Visits: 23
Hi Jeff
Looks very familiar. When you are this deep into it I would pull the pan and push them pistons out, you could very easily have stuck rings,you may even find some broken ones or the rings could just be wore out.Carefully remove the rings and stick one at a time in the bore it came out of,use the piston to shove it down to the bottom of the ring travel pull the piston out and check the ring gap with a feeler Gage.
Is there a lot of ridge ?
If it needs rings call Jerry or Hastings rings,I got rings for my Continental 22R in my ward lafrance from Hastings,did it all through E-mail , sent a check,rings show up at your door.
The rod and mains bearings have shims so plasti-gauge and adjust as needed.
Valve department,you could just lap them but if the seat width is over a +1/8 find some one that has a portable seat grinder, grind the valves,you may need new seats also.
Pull the tappet clusters,have the adjusting screws ground.
Find a hot water pressure washer and give that engine a bath inside and out use a good grease cutting soap especially in the water jacket.
If you were like 10 miles closer I would come over with tools.
Up north Jeff
Tony Bullard
Posted 5 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
13th direct

13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Last Active: Yesterday
Posts: 3.7K, Visits: 17.8K
redandyellow (9/5/2016)
Jeff,
This is a very interesting project you have going. I am particularly interested in the unsticking of the engine. Earlier in the thread I had noticed the reference to using Rust Blast to unstick and engine so I had Eddy ship me some. I am trying to get the pony engine on my Caterpillar D8 14A unstuck. I put an inch or so of Rust Blast in the cylinders last Friday. I tried using a wood block and large hammer on them Saturday but nothing moved. I refilled the cylinders and inch deep and will leave them sit over the holiday. My guess is to eventually, the Rust Blast will work its way down the cylinder walls and bingo, it will be free????

To help the process along, has anyone used heat to help the cylinder walls move away from the pistons? I tried burning some diesel using a rag in each cylinder but that did not seem to generate much heat. I then tried a propane torch and still not much heat. I am going to try the O2/acetylene torch (very carefully) next. Good idea or bad anyone???? 

Red and Yellow


Welcome to Just old Trucks, redandyellow. It's going to be interesting to see how the Rust Blast works. I would think being water based it's wicking and capillary action would be limited. I'm sure it's unbeatable for surface rust. As the active ingredient is spent transforming rust and leaving a zinc phosphate coating between the piston and the wall will the coating block more active ingredient from going farther?

I wouldn't bother trying to use heat to try to expand the block more than the piston. You can't get enough heat fast and evenly enough in the block to make a difference.





Tony
Tony Bullard
Posted 5 Years Ago
View Quick Profile
13th direct

13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)13th direct (4.3K reputation)

Group: Administrators
Last Active: Yesterday
Posts: 3.7K, Visits: 17.8K
Jeff Jensen (9/5/2016)
Hi Jeff
Looks very familiar. When you are this deep into it I would pull the pan and push them pistons out, you could very easily have stuck rings,you may even find some broken ones or the rings could just be wore out.Carefully remove the rings and stick one at a time in the bore it came out of,use the piston to shove it down to the bottom of the ring travel pull the piston out and check the ring gap with a feeler Gage.
Is there a lot of ridge ?
If it needs rings call Jerry or Hastings rings,I got rings for my Continental 22R in my ward lafrance from Hastings,did it all through E-mail , sent a check,rings show up at your door.
The rod and mains bearings have shims so plasti-gauge and adjust as needed.
Valve department,you could just lap them but if the seat width is over a +1/8 find some one that has a portable seat grinder, grind the valves,you may need new seats also.
Pull the tappet clusters,have the adjusting screws ground.
Find a hot water pressure washer and give that engine a bath inside and out use a good grease cutting soap especially in the water jacket.
If you were like 10 miles closer I would come over with tools.
Up north Jeff


Welcome to the forums, Jeff. I like all your suggestions, especially about pulling the pistons. That way you can free one piston at a time instead of trying to turn the engine and free them all at the some time.



Tony


Similar Topics