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2 speed rear end, is this too much wear on the high speed clutch plate/sliding clutch?

Posted By K5_489 Last Year
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2 speed rear end, is this too much wear on the high speed clutch...

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Hamish
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K5_489 (1/12/2020)
Finally did the road test today, and 2 speed works great now. I'm still having issues learning down shifting this trans, though I think I may be trying to pull it down too low too early. I didn't get much time on it today as I don't have current insurance or registration on it, and a visit from Officer By-The-Book would have put a serious crimp on my good day, lol.

Now on to stripping the deck, rewiring, new lights, and a trip to the lumber yard :)

In my experience they down shift best when the truck is under load, otherwise they are prone to neutralise-usually a stomp on the accelerator sorts that though. Down shift really good going up a hill-trying to down shift the 2 speed going downhill is asking for trouble.
Geoff Weeks
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Good news!
K5_489
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Finally did the road test today, and 2 speed works great now. I'm still having issues learning down shifting this trans, though I think I may be trying to pull it down too low too early. I didn't get much time on it today as I don't have current insurance or registration on it, and a visit from Officer By-The-Book would have put a serious crimp on my good day, lol.

Now on to stripping the deck, rewiring, new lights, and a trip to the lumber yard :)
Geoff Weeks
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K5_489 (1/2/2020)




My biggest concern really is just availability of replacements if I ever did take it on a long trip somewhere, and had a need to find another tire somewhere far from home...having to mail order a 20" bias ply tube would be a real bummer, whereas it would likely be pretty easy to find a X-R22.5 to fit, even if it wasn't an exact match, but would be enough to get me home.  

Tube types are not quite so thin on the ground as all that. But the chances any one dealership would have one in stock afterhours is a concern. Most have a tire warehouse close by where they could get one in a day or so.  Regardless I carry a mounted spare, so I am not sitting waiting for a tire.
 Carrying an unmounted tube type is a option, but keeping the inside spotlessly clean is difficult, and any sand or debris between the tube and casing will quickly result in another flat. It is hard to get it spotless without a vacuum to get the last bit of dirt out.  

K5_489
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Junkmandan (1/3/2020)
Think school buses for 10 X 22.5  tires              Also,early Ford ton and a half used the 5 hole Budd wheel in the  30s, 40s and 50s ..     Gotta be around, based on the pictures guys post of trucks in the woods and overgrown vines.


Yes, plenty of 5 lug Budd wheels out there across the country...but not the 5 lug TUBELESS 22.5 wheels, which is what we were talking about.  Also not a whole lot of the trucks period out here, at least not any more.  I'm not exactly in the middle of farming country out here in the low desert, lol, and general population of the Phoenix area was pretty low in the 40s and 50s.  As a point of comparison - Chicago's population in 1940 - 3.3million.  Phoenix?  65,000.  It wasn't until the late 50s/early 60s that the population really started to grow, hitting around 400,000 in 1960.  Thus, there wasn't a whole lot of this equipment out here in that time frame to survive to today either.  I find the same problem when I go hunting for antique tractors as well...seems people out in the middle of farming country can't go 10 feet without tripping over a dozen old Farmalls and Deeres sitting in a field somewhere that the owners are more than willing to give away, whereas here when I find the odd one, the owners thing they're sitting on a retirement fund just because it's old.  

As I has said earlier, getting the 22.5 tires is simple - TONS of relatively new RV takeoffs for dirt cheap.  It's finding the wheels to put them on that's the challenge.  

Plus, a lot of those earlier wheels were 18" diameter, and even of the ones that were 20" diameter, they were more commonly a 3.75" or 4" wide wheel.  That would put me in an even worse position for obtaining suitable tires than my current 6" wide wheels.  Even the junk yard that's local here that has a handful of early heavy trucks, has mostly early wheels that look like pizza slicers compared to what I have now, and mine look like that compared to modern truck tires.  
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Think school buses for 10 X 22.5  tires              Also,early Ford ton and a half used the 5 hole Budd wheel in the  30s, 40s and 50s ..     Gotta be around, based on the pictures guys post of trucks in the woods and overgrown vines.
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Geoff Weeks (1/2/2020)
10x 22.5 is fairly common and is the tubeless equlvent of a 9x20, If you could find some 7 or 7.5 22.5 in 5 lug wheels you would be in business. The 5 lug is the kicker however.
 Last time I bought a 10Rx 20 for my truck is was close to $400 all in. I  was looking for quality radials for OTR use so was willing to spend a few extra bucks as good tubeless aren't cheap either. 
China bias plies are cheaper but...
Clearance between the tire and spring (on the rear duals) as well as duel spacing and clearance for the tie rod on the front all are problems when trying to fit wider rims to these old trucks.
 On my K's the 900 x 20 give better cruising RPM, while the 8.25 x 20 don't cause you to slow as much pulling a grade.  


Spring clearance was another one of those issues that was mentioned.  The International 22.5 wheels were only something like 6" wide as well, and if a wider 5 lug wheel was ever made, no one has yet found them, short of going with a completely custom built wheel.  Even putting a wider rim on an original 5 lug center wouldn't work, due to the shallower dish of the centers.  I think clearance to the rear springs was the big issue on the duals - that once you went to a deeper dish on the wheel to clear a 7" rim, then tire/spring interference became an issue due to the hubs on the axles...though I think it's more an axle housing width issue.  Meaning I couldn't even just swap in 6 lug hubs to use the more common 6 lug wheels, as the housing width would still be too narrow.  

At the end of it all though, I think it would end up being a wash, cost wise, for me.  I don't see myself ever putting enough miles on this truck for tire wear to be an issue, and most likely tires would end up being like my trailer tires - they get replaced after so many years because of dry rot issues rather than tread wear.  As it is, the tires on this one now are probably as old as I am, and I wouldn't think twice about running them across town.  Not going for a 500 mile trip down the interstate on them, but a quick 35mph trip to the gas station and back, no problem.  If I bought new tires for it today, I'd probably only be looking at maybe 1 or 2 more sets for it before I'm too old to drive it anymore, lol.  

My biggest concern really is just availability of replacements if I ever did take it on a long trip somewhere, and had a need to find another tire somewhere far from home...having to mail order a 20" bias ply tube would be a real bummer, whereas it would likely be pretty easy to find a X-R22.5 to fit, even if it wasn't an exact match, but would be enough to get me home.  
Geoff Weeks
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10x 22.5 is fairly common and is the tubeless equlvent of a 9x20, If you could find some 7 or 7.5 22.5 in 5 lug wheels you would be in business. The 5 lug is the kicker however.
 Last time I bought a 10Rx 20 for my truck is was close to $400 all in. I  was looking for quality radials for OTR use so was willing to spend a few extra bucks as good tubeless aren't cheap either. 
China bias plies are cheaper but...
Clearance between the tire and spring (on the rear duals) as well as duel spacing and clearance for the tie rod on the front all are problems when trying to fit wider rims to these old trucks.
 On my K's the 900 x 20 give better cruising RPM, while the 8.25 x 20 don't cause you to slow as much pulling a grade.  
K5_489
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Aaron (1/2/2020)
Ford.
Ford came out in 55 or 56 with a tubeless wheel in 6 lug and I believe 5 lug also, I have 3 of the 6 lug  I'll look for size but I believe 9. something X 22


Disclaimer - I'm FAR from any kind of expert on "big truck" equipment availability today, and thus far, have only gone on what I've been told from others that I assumed to be more experienced than myself :P

From the way it was explained to me the last time I asked about this on one of the International forums, it had something to do with the hub width on the old trucks being narrower than the new trucks, and the original split ring rims also being on the narrow side, I believe being either 5.5" or 6" wide.  The original spec for my truck was a 8.25x20 tire, with 9.00x20 being optional.  I believe it originally shipped with 8.25x20 at all positions, and currently has 9.00x20 steer tires, and 8.25x20 drive tires on it.  

Apparently, a 9r22.5 is the narrowest commonly available tire now, and based on recommended rim widths, would still be too wide for the original International 22.5 wheels from back in the 60s, if I were to find them, and would result in crowning of the tire if they were mounted.  It also also reduce the distance between the two tires when mounted in a dual arrangement to dangerous levels, which is due to the reduced dish of the wheels compared to modern wheels.  Last, even if I wanted to take this all the way, so to speak, and have a company like Stockton custom make me a set of wheels using modern 22.5 shells on a custom drilled center to fit my original 5 lug pattern, I wouldn't be able to safely mount them on my current axles due to the hub width.  There was a company that was found a couple years ago willing to do this, it may not have been Stockton, but there was someone that was found that would do so for something like $200/each, which did seem entirely reasonable.  

It was something that I never really dove down all that deep in to, as I figured being able to drive the truck more than a few hundred feet was pretty important before I started concerning myself with replacement tire availability, lol.  
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Ford.
Ford came out in 55 or 56 with a tubeless wheel in 6 lug and I believe 5 lug also, I have 3 of the 6 lug  I'll look for size but I believe 9. something X 22


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