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Posted By jhancock 7 Years Ago
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chtrout
Posted 2 Years Ago
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thundersnow70 (7/24/2018)
So let's talk about wheel bearings. Timken 73562/73875...


Wow, I truly like your exhaustive research and very cautious approach to overseas distributors, especially in areas like China.

Very impressive work, and great information for anyone stalking those pesky wheel bearings for their own rebuild. 



Craig H. Trout
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Researching Holmes / Plains / Coleman / American Coleman Trucks
and selected production partners, such as Columbian Steel Tank, Quick Way Truck Shovel, Howe-Coleman, International Harvester, Marmon-Herrington, and SnowBlast

thundersnow70
Posted 2 Years Ago
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So let's talk about wheel bearings. Timken 73562/73875. I know those numbers by heart. I will give credit to a local bearing supplier parts guy named Jerry for finding them. He did some internet searching and found a supplier in China. He had his I.T. guy look at the web page and said it looked legit. He talked to his manager and his manager said NO WAY. They would not get involved with China, but he said he would give me all the info. The company name is Sun Rises Group Limited in Hong Kong. After about 30 emails and a bunch of research I wired the money for 1. When I say research I mean it. I called Hong Kong to see who answered, got the number off the web page. It was obvious they sold bearings and the name was correct. It was also obvious we had a language barrier. I google street viewed the address, the building matched the picture on the web page. I street view the bank address, it showed up as HSBC. Everything was looking good. I googled some shipping terms so I didn't sound like a hillbilly in SD. MOQ, Measure of Quantity, PI, Purchase Informa or purchase order etc.I wanted them to think they were dealing with an industrial business. EVERYONE thought I was nuts to wire money to China, my wife and kids, my co-workers, everyone at the bank etc. I learned with international money wiring it all has to be done in one day and it cost $50 just to wire. Plus the Fed has to clear it. I had to send proof of the money wire to them being careful not to send any of my account info to them. About a week later they told me it was arranged. A week after that DHL sent me a tracking number, and a week after that a bearing and race showed up.

When I went to get another one the old email address was dead. After more research I found it back but under SDVV which is a German bearing company. All I can figure is that they merged some time after bearing #1. When I began email them it jumped back to SunRisesGroup. Then to make things worse I received two quotes back. One being about 400% higher than the other. So I dealt with the cheaper one and set everything up. After they received my money they informed me they were out of stock. I fired off a nasty email about them selling out in a matter of days and figured My money was gone. That same night they informed me they sourced one and it would be shipped. Bearing #2 came out of Singapore. Only about 1500 miles away from Hong Kong. Needless to say that one showed up as well. Took about a month. I was feeling lucky so I asked if they had 2 more and they said they did. I asked for another PI and wired more money. Bearing #3 and #4 came together and took about 3 weeks.

From what I can tell I have been emailing a distribution center in Hong Kong that has merged with a big German bearing supplier. They must source bearings from all over Asia. It was a stressful adventure, but well worth it. Something that surprised me was the Google search. Jerrys first search was just the numbers, no Timken. Another thing that was troublesome was the quotes. I did this 3 times and had 3 different bearing quote prices and 2 different shipping quote prices. Makes me think there is no set price, just whatever they figure they could get. In short if anyone wants some of these bearings go to SDVV bearing, or SRG beaing. SDVV should get you the SRG email address, wire some money, hold your breath and cross your fingers.

thundersnow70
Posted 2 Years Ago
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chtrout
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thundersnow70 (7/23/2018)
Craig, I will put together a list of suppliers and part numbers. I will post it all at one time to keep it together. As far as wear goes, there is virtually none so far with the exception of the pin holes that join the yoke to the ring. They are egged out and I have yet to remedy that problem. The steering tie rod end bushings and bolt look great. The hubs look great and the DS stub all look great. Very minor wear on the brake drums even tho the brake pads are down past the heads of the rivits. The four pins look good as well. Very minor wear. It's obvious they are harder than the ring and yoke. I will further document how well these parts have held up during assembly. The wheel bearing story is a interesting one. That's a different post on its own.



That was very interesting that the Power Yoke and Compensating Ring showed more wear than the pins. I had not anticipated that, but it makes perfect sense. I look forward to continuing to "learn" from your rebuild adventures! Thanks again for sharing!


Craig H. Trout
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Researching Holmes / Plains / Coleman / American Coleman Trucks
and selected production partners, such as Columbian Steel Tank, Quick Way Truck Shovel, Howe-Coleman, International Harvester, Marmon-Herrington, and SnowBlast

thundersnow70
Posted 2 Years Ago
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Craig, I will put together a list of suppliers and part numbers. I will post it all at one time to keep it together. As far as wear goes, there is virtually none so far with the exception of the pin holes that join the yoke to the ring. They are egged out and I have yet to remedy that problem. The steering tie rod end bushings and bolt look great. The hubs look great and the DS stub all look great. Very minor wear on the brake drums even tho the brake pads are down past the heads of the rivits. The four pins look good as well. Very minor wear. It's obvious they are harder than the ring and yoke. I will further document how well these parts have held up during assembly. The wheel bearing story is a interesting one. That's a different post on its own.
chtrout
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thundersnow70 (7/23/2018)
I never thought of it like that before Craig. Like trying to roll a dead vehicle by turning in the center of the hub vs. trying to roll it by the tire. Rolling on the tire would be far easier and take much less effort. I would take issue with some of their promotion claiming only 4 wear points. They obviously refered to the four pins. Two in the ring and two in the yoke. But it's obvious that there is more than 4. Do you need different or better pics Craig or will these work?


Yes, just like turning a bicycle upside down, and then compare trying to turn the center of the wheel with your finger tips, then spin the wheel by the tire (essentially the rim) – you still have your same available muscle strength, but you are now providing much more efficient (therefore powerful) spin to the wheel.

And yes, the "Only 4 Wear Points" sales pitch is in itself a bit of a minor "spin." If they are talking Coleman propriety (patented) parts, I think they were largely correct in their claim -- 2 pins to connect the Power Yoke to the Compensating Ring, and 2 pins to connect the Compensating Ring to the wheel rim. When talking about other non-propriety parts, such as wheel bearings – obviously there is wear.

And yes, I think you have provided very good photo coverage. I would also like to see you comment on "where" you actually did observe significant "wear," and also comment on replacement part numbers and sources. Some parts might have "equivalencies" across multiple manufacturers and suppliers.

Stepping back and looking at the big picture, while a Coleman Model-9 axle and a Model-12 axle may have different ratings, a number of the parts will be the same, and only a few will be specific to the particular axle model. Also, the Coleman FDA on a farm tractor (special order on IH, Minneapolis-Moline, Massey-Ferguson, Cockshutt, et al), may have many of the same parts as say a Coleman Model-9 FDA on a Ford Truck conversion. Said another way, a supplier or dealer with farm tractor NOS hub parts might have parts that will also fit a Coleman FDA conversion on a truck, or even a Coleman aircraft towing tractor. The tractor manufactures may have assigned their own part numbers, but they are dimensionally a perfect fit. The same is true for medium and heavy-duty truck manufacturers, such as IH, that installed Coleman FDAs (special order) on their truck assembly lines – they often gave their own internal part numbers for standard off-the-shelf Coleman FDAs.



Craig H. Trout
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Researching Holmes / Plains / Coleman / American Coleman Trucks
and selected production partners, such as Columbian Steel Tank, Quick Way Truck Shovel, Howe-Coleman, International Harvester, Marmon-Herrington, and SnowBlast

thundersnow70
Posted 2 Years Ago
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I never thought of it like that before Craig. Like trying to roll a dead vehicle by turning in the center of the hub vs. trying to roll it by the tire. Rolling on the tire would be far easier and take much less effort. I would take issue with some of their promotion claiming only 4 wear points. They obviously refered to the four pins. Two in the ring and two in the yoke. But it's obvious that there is more than 4. Do you need different or better pics Craig or will these work?
chtrout
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thundersnow70 (7/22/2018)
Forgot to mention to pull the axle before removing the pins. 8 bolts hold the axle to the power yoke in this case. Also keep in mind the first time we pulled the power yoke pins it took about 3 days to get them out.


This is a very good shot of the Power Yoke and Compensating Ring. These are central elements of "what makes a Coleman a Coleman." The Compensating Ring attaches directly to the wheel rim, or that is to say, the Power Yoke transmits the power from the axle stem directly to the wheel rim, thus turning the wheel by its rim rather that its center. Testing repeatedly proved that this developed roughly 3x more power to the wheel, and then coupled with very low gear ratios in the transfer case, Coleman Front Drive Axles (FDAs) had truly exceptional power when compared to other more traditional universal-joint assemblies that turned the wheel from the center, rather than the rim. The other role of the compensating ring it that it allows for "center-line steering."



Craig H. Trout
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Researching Holmes / Plains / Coleman / American Coleman Trucks
and selected production partners, such as Columbian Steel Tank, Quick Way Truck Shovel, Howe-Coleman, International Harvester, Marmon-Herrington, and SnowBlast

thundersnow70
Posted 2 Years Ago
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So that's as far as I got tonight. Sorry the pictures are all twisted 90 degrees to the left. I have NO idea how that happened. Hope it all makes sense so far. This is the 3rd time I have done this and the 2nd time on this side so it went pretty quick. Maybe this will help the next guy do it quicker than it took me the first time. The next step will be to remove the hub from the stub by driving the hub down and off the stub. The last time we broke the passenger side down we stopped at this point so I have no idea how much of a fight the spindle bearings are going to give. On the upside I now know how it comes off now so it shouldn't be to bad. 

Mark
thundersnow70
Posted 2 Years Ago
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Inner bearing is off. It had to be drove off through the two access holes in the back of the spindle. The holes are in the 2 o'clock and 8 o'clock position.


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