Doodlebug part ID help needed


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By Jungerfrosch - 7 Years Ago
I just picked up a doodlebug today....now comes the fun of figuring out exactly what I have and how to get it going again. The seller said it is a Ford Model B engine/transmission coupled to an International 8-16 Tractor transmission. The 8-16 trans drives the chains to a Mack rear end.

The engine is not stuck, but only turns 180deg albeit easily by hand. How do I identify a Model B from a Model A.....and does anyone have a good reference(book, website, etc) for doing a tear down and overhaul. I've never torn an engine down, let alone ever worked on anything that old. Paying someone else is not in the picture as it would be cost prohibitive. I'm looking to do the least amount to get it going, If I can avoid it I really don't want to do a full rebuild. Based on the front wheels we were thinking it came out of a larger truck....did the trucks have a closed drive line? What year rims will fit on the front, I'm pretty sure what is on there are not usable.

Is there anyway of telling what model or year(s) the Mack rear wheels are? The rims look pretty shot, how available are rims or what else will fit? They are 24" rims and seem pretty narrow to me. I would prefer to keep it the way it is, but if I can't find matching rims....or get tires then I will have to change.

I'm also looking for service information for the Mack axle and IH 8-16 transmission. Stuff like what oil to use, how to service brakes, Chain maintenance, etc...

I really appreciate any help anyone can give.

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By Jeff Lakaszcyck - 7 Years Ago
I'll take a crack at some of it. The rear axle and radius rods are from an early (pre-1926) Mack AC or possibly AB. The front wheels look like Ford AA and the front axle and wishbones may be as well. The frame resembles a White from one of the larger models from the 'teens or '20's, but it has a lot of unusual bends in it, either it had been highly modified or it is from something else. I'm not smart enough on the Ford A and B engines to know the difference, although I don't think there was much.
By Wolfcreek_Steve - 7 Years Ago
My dad literally "saved the farm" by building stuff like this for the neighbors as a teenager in the early 30s depression years.
By Aaron - 7 Years Ago
I think you pretty much hit it Jeff, I am thinking along the same lines, at least on the ford stuff,the wheel looks to be 29/29 ford, and the B's had a ballanced crank and I though a pressure oil system, and a higher compression head.
By Dennis Wells AKA Smiley - 7 Years Ago
That is a B or C engine. A had a breather tube on the side of engine.

C,s, 34 had a balanced crank not B's 32.
By Tony Bullard - 7 Years Ago
The front end is a '28 Ford AA.

http://forums.justoldtrucks.com/Uploads/Images/e150b2de-93eb-4558-8044-2932.JPG

http://forums.justoldtrucks.com/Uploads/Images/c7a7647a-dbc8-404a-8c06-c930.JPG

'29 and up had five hand holes and a different hub.

http://forums.justoldtrucks.com/Uploads/Images/0b5c4e54-be7b-45b1-8702-9f3e.JPG

All As had an oil pump. Mac's Auto Parts along with many others is a good place to get Ford parts.

A stuck valve can may be why it only turns 180. Rebuilding it is really straight forward. The babbitt rod and mains are shimmed so you may have to scrape and fit what you have or send it out for re-babbitting. You'll need a spacial valve guide tool and spring compressor. Cheap form Mac's. Getting a carb is going to be your biggest coast.
By Park Olson - 7 Years Ago
Don't B's & C'S have fuel pumps?
By Dennis Wells AKA Smiley - 7 Years Ago
Park Olson (27/10/2013)
Don't B's & C'S have fuel pumps?


Yes
By Dennis Wells AKA Smiley - 7 Years Ago
I am corrected it id an A it has the vent tube.
By Tony Bullard - 7 Years Ago
I'm pretty sure only '28 and early '29 rim will fit your axle. The bolt circle may be the same through 34 but the pilot hole I think is smaller on yours. Here's a good place to get Ford info. http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/index.php
By Tony Bullard - 7 Years Ago
Being a doodlebug most any up draft carb would be appropriate. Easy enough to make an adapter. Most all old farm tractors used up drafts. Check your local bone yard for something that will fit.

All Fords used closed drive shafts. Trucks through '39 and cars 'till '48?
By Jungerfrosch - 7 Years Ago
Tony Bullard (27/10/2013)


All Fords used closed drive shafts. Trucks through '39 and cars 'till '48?


I just wasn't sure if the larger trucks (AA,BB,etc...) would have still had a closed drive shaft.....not that the engine/trans are necessarily out of the same truck(or a truck at all) the axle was.

Tad
By Tony Bullard - 7 Years Ago
Tad your transmission is a Ford model A car or pick up three speed. AA and BB had a four speed with a gate leaver on the stick to get it in reverse. They all had closed drives. I think '40 trucks went to open and so did the cars in '48 or 9.

Is your trans cast into the bell housing? if so it's got to be a really early A.
By Tony Bullard - 7 Years Ago
The top water goose neck may tell the date. 28-29 = 5.375" tall. 30-31 = 6".
By Tony Bullard - 7 Years Ago
If you can get the serial # stamped in the block you can get the year here. http://www.mafca.com/data_eng_production.html

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By Jungerfrosch - 7 Years Ago
Tony Bullard (27/10/2013)
If you can get the serial # stamped in the block you can get the year here. http://www.mafca.com/data_eng_production.html



I wish my numbers were as clear as the ones in the picture you posted. The best that I can tell I got A163648 which would put it in May 1928. I guess the seller was wrong...but he admitted having very little knowledge about the engine, he is into tractors, and from what I can tell he definitely knew his stuff there. No big deal to me, A B engine would have been nice simply because it is better....but I have no need for a better engine. I would have replaced it with an A in any case if it turned out to be junk due to availability.

Tad
By Aaron - 7 Years Ago
The B heads have a 3 bolt water pump instead of 4 from what I've read.
By Tony Bullard - 7 Years Ago

“I wish my numbers were as clear as the ones in the picture you posted.”

Yeah I bought a gallon of white lead from a paint shop in CA that was running from the greenies.Rub a little into the numbers and wipe off the excess. Leaves a nice contrast. I tried to buy the rest of his zinc chromate and red lead but they already had the cuffs on him.

Pull the head and side valve cover and you’ll have access to both pistons and valves. Free the valves and clean up the cylinders and you should be on your way to getting it running.

You may have to heat the head nuts if they don’t come easily. You don’t want to brake off the studs or have them come with the nuts. Drive four or more screw driver wedges into the head gasket to pop it off. If it doesn’t won’t to come put the nuts back on flush with the top of the studs. Keep tunking on the nuts with a hammer as if you were playing vibes. That should free the head from the studs.


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By Jungerfrosch - 7 Years Ago
Not sure if I will be able to get to the Doodlebug at all this winter.....I've got to get another project going that has been sitting way too long....but I can at least start the search for parts so I have everything(hopefully) in place for when spring comes.

It's always fun getting a new project and being able to learn about the particulars of another make. I'm hoping my engine does just have a stuck valve, and that I can get it going relatively easily.

I'll be posting want ads around soon, and the list will grow, but I know I will need:
-exhaust manifold (mine is broken, been previously broken and welded, and is rusted through)
-Carburetor
-Oil fill cap
-Distributor
-2 Ford Model AA rims
-2 Mack rims(still trying to determine what exactly will fit)
-I'm sure these will be considerably difficult to find, and perhaps cost prohibitive for a Doodlebug.

I really appreciate everybody's help

Tad
By Tony Bullard - 7 Years Ago

Just something that might help: All Ford left hand wheels had left hand threads.
By OLPs59KW - 7 Years Ago
Jungerfrosch (28/10/2013)
Not sure if I will be able to get to the Doodlebug at all this winter.....I've got to get another project going that has been sitting way too long....but I can at least start the search for parts so I have everything(hopefully) in place for when spring comes.

It's always fun getting a new project and being able to learn about the particulars of another make. I'm hoping my engine does just have a stuck valve, and that I can get it going relatively easily.

I'll be posting want ads around soon, and the list will grow, but I know I will need:
-exhaust manifold (mine is broken, been previously broken and welded, and is rusted through)
-Carburetor
-Oil fill cap
-Distributor
-2 Ford Model AA rims
-2 Mack rims(still trying to determine what exactly will fit)
-I'm sure these will be considerably difficult to find, and perhaps cost prohibitive for a Doodlebug.

I really appreciate everybody's help

Tad
By Eddy Lucast - 7 Years Ago
Don't discount your ford dealer, these part numbers are still in the system.

Last time I bought a set of points for a AA I went to the Ford dealer they laughed and I asked him to check anyway. Ford had it in stock.
By Bruce Ohnstad - 7 Years Ago
Is there more story about who built this for what purpose? Can you take a larger picture of the large gearbox?

I can't visualize the input drive and chain spocket arrangement on the rear gearbox, with the stacks of cast housings sitting above it. Is there a winch drive on top?

I wonder if this was a special application industrial or mining design? The I beam frame is bent too well, the cast iron gearboxes, and other components are heavier and specialized for the normal Model A conversion.

Bruce
By Aaron - 7 Years Ago
I think the early AA's came with a 3 spd box the 4 spd came along shortly.
By Tony Bullard - 7 Years Ago
IH 8-16 tractor transmission. http://www.tractorshed.com/cgi-bin/shed.cgi?ag17_007.jpg


http://photos.yesterdaystractors.com/gallery/uptest/a110883.jpg

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By Jungerfrosch - 7 Years Ago
http://forums.justoldtrucks.com/Uploads/Images/e39cc1ed-4a69-4eda-a43a-dcc8.JPG
Here is a shot of the whole thing....I realized I never posted a picture of the complete Doodlebug.

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Radiator I bought from the seller that I am going to use. It is from an International F-12.....for those who don't know the tank on the front is the air cleaner.....I didn't know until I asked :) I'm planning on using this air cleaner in place of the one already on the Doodlebug.

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Here is a shot showing the 8-16 transmission better. The whole thing attached to the small sprocket is the transmission, it extends down into the frame as well, with the input between the frame rails. The splined shaft on the top is where the belt drive pulley was. I don't know that I would ever have a use for a belt drive, but if I find one to put on at a reasonable price I will get one. The previous owner kept the one off of this.

http://forums.justoldtrucks.com/Uploads/Images/1f6d6b1d-e63c-4283-886b-d6e8.JPG
From left to right: 2 tall shift arms are to shift the 8-16 transmission. The left foot pedal is left brake, the middle is clutch on the model A, and the right pedal is right brake. The tall arm with the lock is to apply both brakes. To shift the model A you have to reach up over the 8-16 trans.

Looking at some of the pictures that Tony posted makes me think that perhaps the frame is from the 8-16 tractor, it seems to have similar bends in it. The only thing that doesnt have me convinced is that the frame is one large U-shape and the 8-16 tractors were square at the front. The rounded front was cut down shorter, but I do not see any other welds or cuts on the frame rails. Perhaps the frame is from another piece of equipment or tractor, It fits the transmission well though. I do not doubt that the Doodlebug is home built, it was done really well, but not well enough to be factory. The big selling point for me was that it is quite unusual as it is a lot heavier than most that were made.

Tad